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Lela Gilbert Education. (2012) 'Saturday People, Sunday People Israel Through the Eyes of a Christian Sojourner.' New.

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Israel 54, Lela 8, Jerusalem 6, Us 4, Africa 3, South Africa 3, Dylan 3, Lela Gilbert 2, Afar 2, Malcolm 2, Ramadan 2, Egypt 2, Lebanon 2, Iraq 2, Tomas 1, Mendel 1, Moseley 1, Jeremiah 1, Baroness Cox 1, Eric Brown 1,
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  CSPAN    Book TV    Lela Gilbert  Education.  (2012) 'Saturday People, Sunday  
   People Israel Through the Eyes of a Christian Sojourner.' New.  

    December 29, 2012
    8:15 - 9:30pm EST  

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stuff. that is not a standard background with which to push a new theory of the beginning middle and end of the universe, right? so we made an animation of the theory and its on youtube. it got in his first five weeks 754,000, almost a quarter of a million hits so the public enjoys it or something. and now the question is, with running science in order to expand science which is what i have done, then okay, now the normal credentialing process to take it seriously. [inaudible] >> to bring everything back down a little bit to the pragmatic, i don't have a science background but i am a political science -- and i was struck with the wave
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in the comparison of it with the stock market which is hanging around in the back of my head, and i haven't read it yet but the idea of lots of discrete entities doing things, creating something larger with or without people, with or without that intention of creating something larger. is this already being done, to apply this to policy say you know okay we want to do this. we are doing it this way but it's not working or all of these actions we are taking are somehow creating this other thing that we haven't even thought about. i feel like there could he and education, sort of guide to how we would put recruitment strategies or how to use them as a tool in other fields?
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>> i think you're absolutely right in that is why had done this thing up diving. i've been involved with politics since i was 16 and i go juan iranian television and they go on saudi television discussing world affairs. i also do american television on a radio station talking about world affairs. why? these things are all related. mass behavior among parts having relationship to mass behavior among human beings doesn't make that massive behavior predictable because the mass of behavior builds behavior considerably. it builds on repulsion but in recognizing the commonalities lies a hint of the solution and if you read my first book the lucifer principle, the forces of history, you will see ideas like this applied in ways that relate directly to geopolitics and to economics and if you read my second book global brain, the
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office from the secretary of defense thought that book was so relevant to these kinds of things that office through a seminar based on the book and brought in people from the energy department, darpa and ibm. in reality, the path to understanding these things has been shown in what mendel wrote. men dover road went beyond conventional mathematics. he ditched the mathematics of his uncle who is a great mathematician of his era and it's the mathematics and the equations which was largely their in order to keep us from understanding math so we wouldn't apply it for new weapons and they went back to making math what it had been since the beginning of mathematics, pictures. he did it using a visual. he worked for business machine company. this machine company had come up with this incredible business
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machine called computers and they got the computers to create pictures based on very simple equations, very simple equations. began the patterns emerging that would allow someday mathematics to deal with the stock market. mathematics will only be able to deal the stock market jon stewart mallon george henry luce's question coming up with the mathematics that can predict these huge jumps. big continuous jumps for things that -- calls black swan. can term black swans into white swans and this one's can understand. it still primitive. we are working with an old stone toolkit of mathematics and it's time to get beyond it and the computer shows us ways to get beyond it. the computer it is not even the answer however we are very good at -- and knott someday there will be
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mathematics that can cope with is very simple ways of the stock market and what it can do. any other questions or should we leave you all? wade, the microphone is making its way. >> i'm sorry, what is your state about mathematics right now? >> mathematics is the equivalent of the older ones toolkit. the older one stone toolkit was extraordinary useful and translated us to homo sapiens. without it we wouldn't be where we are today and it has hung around for 750,000 years without very much changing. but in every tool is also elimination. every tool is a tool with which you will someday make the tool that will make that tool not obsolete but put it in a small corner of your toolkit.
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modern mathematics and the stone toolkit of science and it is just beginning. it is primitive and until it deals with how the cosmos creates, how those electron shells came to be from nothingness and until it deals with those things that ain't science yet. it's your job in my job to make it less primitive. is that it? you have been wonderful. i've had i have had a tryptic time with you all and i really appreciate the energy that you have given me. thank you for coming. it's been really a delight. [applause]
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next on booktv, lela gilbert a christian describes her experiences in israel where she has lived off and on since 2006. this is about an hour and 15 minutes. >> good afternoon. welcome. i am the director here at the hudson institute the center on islam democracy in the future of the islam world. which publishes a journal on islamism called islamist ideology and which aye edited with my colleagues ambassador haqqani and eric brown. it's my pleasure to host today's event. it's the subject, wonderful new
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book by my guests, lela gilbert. and here it is. it's title is "saturday people, sunday people" israel through the eyes of a christian sojourner. ms. gilbert is here to discuss her book with us. before introducing and turning to her book itself, let me say a few words by way of introduction about lela herself. lela has had a very impressive and very much of a concern with the arts including music. she has been a songwriter and worked extensively with musical groups including an african children's chorus based in uganda and composed of the condon and kenyan orphans. i may add that she has passed on her artistic gifts to her two
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sons,. .. and dylan. .. is a gifted photographer and photographs on the cover of the book. dylan is dylan is a gifted songwriter and musician. as her work in africa may suggest she has also been an extensive traveler, works in africa, africa, south and east asia, europe and of course the middle east. by far the largest part of her work has been as an author, both acknowledged and if i may put it this way is a quiet partner. she has in either way more than 60 books to her credit and a number of genres, poetry, fiction, both adult and children's and a book of an adult romantic chirla g. if i
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remember craig -- correctly and tales of the king. a lot of her work has been nonfiction and that too has covered a variety of subjects. some of her nonfiction has dealt with the issue of single motherhood. but a good deal is still somehow or other with the issue of religion and the life of politics and social life. this is including the book, difficulty journalists frequently have and probably understanding religion as a motive in offense. is called blind spot, done together with her birder amundsen and my colleague who is here today, coal martial. it was published and won several literary prizes. it has also included work on a book entitled a table in the
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presence which was written by lieutenant commander carry cash which concerns his experiences as a chaplain in combat. another portion of her work also within the area of religion has focused on the fate of christians around the world and in particular their travails in recent years. this included award-winning their blood cries out co-authored with marshall and the award-winning biography by baroness cox, eyewitness to a world. erinys cox is a distinguished member of the house of lords, famous as a campaigner for human rights and for christian rights. there will also be fairly soon another book called persecuted, the global assault on christians
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which will be out in early 2013. this brings me to her most recent book, the one we are here to discuss with her. i have many questions to ask her. but before doing so let me say a few general things about this book take away from it and then hopefully i will have gotten it right. and then we can get into some specific questions. this book is first as its subtitle indicates, a book about israel. as seen through the eyes of a christian, a christian sojourner. the sojourn is now six years and counting.
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in her introduction she writes that the best explanation for this length of time has been the connection she has formed with people in his real. this connection was unexpected because as she puts it, when viewed from afar, israel doesn't seem to be about people at all. what she means by that is the following, to read about israel she says in the international media's they to to me and this arpanet abstract discussions, some about politics, some about religion, palestinian history and palestinian rights about armed conflicts, terrorism, debates about grudges betrayals and injustices, descriptions of holy sites and the various meanings of innumerable religious text. in fact it too often amounts to little more than cool categorizations especially if israelis. labels that she says ken rob the
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smart, savvy and lively people which she came to know in their decency and humanity. all of these things provide little if any feel for the actual israeli way of life and it is that of all things i hope to portray in these pages. let me say at the outset that i think that lela has fulfilled this in particular in portraying the israeli people and their way of life. and that is important because i think she is right about what the world knows about israel -- israel through the various issues he enumerated, above all for an foreign piece. i suppose i should say, this is the way people mostly know other countries, mostly from afar, and mostly through what journalists write about and what we
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occasionally see on tv. we don't have an intimate sense of what people are like there are. the question would be, what's different about israel? i think there is a difference in the difference is israel is so frequently in the news and so much in terms of the issues that people think they really do know this place and they know certain things about it. when in fact, really they have very little sense of the place in lagos on there. that is first and foremost what this book says was its ambition and ambition that has been fulfilled. of course, this book is also
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cannot and does not reflect the issues that lela enumerated in the passage that i read for the reason she states herself. it is inevitable that israel's people and their way of life are greatly affected by politics and one can't help but talk about that and also it is part of what the people she has come to know our formed by. as it turns out during her six years, the six years she has been in israel, period that coincides with three wars, the lebanon war of 2006, a war in which she arrived in israel and remarkably enough stayed. the gaza war of 2009 and most
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recently the gaza war of november 2012. one of the things i want to talk about is your own experiences and i suppose they are rather different than the experiences of a lifetime spent mostly in southern california. i want to say though about these issues, the experiences of the wars in peace and so forth are of course part of the portrait she provides. one that is distinctive and important in her account is that these events into the and to the extent that she discusses these issues, they are seen very powerfully through the people she has come to now and our own direct experience of what these
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it then send these issues mean on the ground to israel and the people who live there. the second general point i want to make about the book by way of description, almost inevitably the large issues which concern israel led her to a still broader and larger concern. this is conveyed by her primary title, "saturday people, sunday people." "saturday people, sunday people," it may be a term you have introduced into the american jargon but it is from the middle east and it means what you might guess it means. saturday people are jewish and sunday people are christian. the friday people are muslims.
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the term saturday people sunday people can be used mutually but it's also used a in the context of expressing a notion favored by some radical muslims that first the jews and then the christians are to be removed from the midst of the middle east and other mostly muslim places so they are not saturday people, sunday people but first the saturday people and then the sunday people. the first is the saturday people and leads to a topic that is also very much a part of this book. but it is not primarily connected with a frequent name of some people who want to
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destroy israel and its inhabitants but rather her entrée to this notion, this perhaps unfortunate prospect where events which were altogether unknown to her and largely forgotten or ignored generally, at least until recently. i'm referring to the wholesale expulsion of jews from arab and muslim countries that occurred largely during world war ii and the early 1970s. this expulsion, immigration, exodus, and the case she points out, in the case of the egyptian jews which numbered about 100,000, they referred to it as their second exodus, this amounted to nearly 1 million people who belongs to jewish communities a very long -- two millennia and more in the
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case of the jews of iraq who came originally in 580 b.c. and it then there ever since. until the present day when there are presently no jews left in iraq. they were not only expelled but restrict it and the majority of them and their descendents live today in israel. this is a very large story and bears upon the issue of palestinian refugees. but it was a story completely according to unknown, israel largely unknown even today and a story that lela tells but she tells it in keeping with the character of the book through the stories of individual she mad and interviewed, people that
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came from iraq, came from egypt and came from other places and have come to live in israel. finally, this particular subject for the reason i mentioned before, "saturday people, sunday people" leads to another subject ,-com,-com ma the second part of the subject, which is the menace or the actuality of persecution which christians are now experiencing in the muslim world under the impact of radical islam. these communities certainly predate the founding of islam as i said in this century and in places like egypt are substantial but these communities are now facing a similar fate to the jews and a
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big portion of this book addresses this subject, both partially reporting the data that we have on what's going on in these communities and not only in the middle east but in the greater middle east, places like pakistan and indonesia and so on. but also through christians she has met who have a direct experience with this. this story is also powerfully documented. one further point, general point i wanted to make about this book, to raise a general question, to whom is this book addressed and who might benefit from it?
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many people, and i think it's a very suitable gift for the holidays -- [laughter] i hope people will go out and buy it. it's a very informative and moving book and it's very unique because lela is a very good writer. i would say that there are several appropriate lines. first writing as a christian american, it is natural that one of her audience the christian americans are at least other non-jewish americans. and since it's you know, it describes a good deal of what jewish life is like in israel and left me say about this, she is markedly well-informed, testament to our own curiosity in the hospitality she found by the israelis. i should say perhaps there are a number of aspects of israeli life even specifically jewish
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experiences which may be largely unknown to american jews as well most american jews have never been to israel and in fact the vast majority have never been. and jewish life looks different there than it does here. which is one subject. what is israelis knowledge of what -- are alike. they're being relatively few and a different way so i think an american jewish reader would profit from knowing what life in israel is really like. they too off in no israel largely from headlines typically about war and peace. and what would be important for them and other audiences to know is something that lela has said.
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even when israel is under the constant threat of four the real substance of the land and its people is not compromise. it is war and peace and war is not all it is. and rather what is the substance? lela puts it this way. life for israel's jews is not focused on death and destruction but on life and construction. they have built a wonderful country and are still building it. there is one final audience that i might mention and that would be israelis. they might be curious how they look or rather all the things they take for ranted about life, so perhaps some israelis will pick this up as well. let me conclude with one final point and then get to some questions and let lela have her
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piece. as i mentioned at the outset, and i thought it worth mentioning, there is much poetry in this book. some poems, some jewish, some non-jewish including our own. more generally want to say there is much collection in the book as a whole and the people and the events she describes and i have a number of personal favorites which i think ought to exemplify the poetry in the book but we will perhaps talk about that as we go along. so, you can now tell me what i got wrong about the book. either in answer to my questions or answer two questions that i should ask.
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but let me start in the following way. in a way the first question, the most natural question to ask about this book and especially such a personal book is why did you go to israel and in the first place and why did you stay? but i'm not going to ask you that. i'm not going to let you answer that yet because i think it would be good to come back to that after we have talked about a few things. so i think the first thing to focus on and one part of the substance of the book is, we say after, for whatever reason experiencing it, one thing that you are positively impressed by was the number of misconceptions and misunderstandings and of
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course as you know perhaps also intentional misrepresentations. so, we formed the ambition and that is what partially lead you to write the book to correct those misperceptions and misunderstandings. and editorially i will say that it seems to me you are in a very position to do so precisely as a christian sojourner, not as we frequently say these days, exactly having skin in the game and from the point of view of the israeli jews and so forth. the question is that i guess i want to ask you is, what after being there seemed to you the most important misconceptions, the things that really most
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important, the ones that seemed the most directly -- that you see if you actually are there, israeli people and living the israeli life and the other side, the notion of what is the most important brother people to know and proper evaluation? there are several you take up in this book. several very important ones. where would you begin? >> well i thought i would began with the things that everyone worried about when i left because most everyone i knew thought i was crazy. they thought i was going into a war zone and i was going to get killed. as it turned out i did go into a war zone. i was not killed that i think
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one of the ideas that people have, people who have not traveled there and maybe some that have been certain areas is that there is barbed wire and there are bunkers and everybody is thinking about a war that is going to strike at any moment or an explosion or something like that. that just simply isn't the case, at least in jerusalem. i think the one place that it is the case unfortunately is in the area of gaza where the rockets are from time to time bombarding the civilian population and people are running into bomb shelters. most of israel is very peaceful, and usually peaceful. i went on a little drive just before i went over there to the north to the lebanon border and i was struck by the placid surroundings of the country. i thought about it even then how it would be hard to explain to
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people the place. we went to see it bird sanctuary, the migrating birds many of them go through israel on their way to africa so there are masses of cranes and pelicans in all sorts of birds. it's a whole surrounding, the whole country is very peaceful. my garden is very peaceful. it's not to say that things don't blow up, they do but it's not a frightening place and is certainly not a place where i have felt -- i have never been afraid. i've been cautious. i've never really been afraid there. that is one thing and i guess another one is an apartheid state, which is ridiculous. i think it's really the only place where jews, arabs and christians actually sit in even the same restaurants and go to the same stores and rub shoulders in the malls. it's very evident because people trust to reflect their belief so
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it's not difficult to know who's who and they are altogether. people on thursdays and friday mornings are at the mall. it's just packed and everybody is together. these are a couple of things so i guess the third one i would say is that israelis are bullies. it's a culture of people -- even the idea of the cactus with the sweet center, i know a couple of really people there. i have known several here. but i don't think that is fair. the people that i have met from all kinds of backgrounds have been like family to me. almost immediately and all of this stuff seems like fiction. it really is fiction but it's written by the media and various groups. that is what we have and those
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are the things i would point out. >> let me ask you a little bit about, some things further about ease three misconceptions and rather to prompt you, to tell little bit about yourself. for example the first one that really struck me very much was the issue of israel as an apartheid state. not so much because it's the only thing but rather it happened when you are there in part of the book came out with that as the title. it also happens that you came to be acquainted with a minister who was from south africa, reverend malcolm headings and who was himself the pastor of a
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bi-racial church in the old south africa, before the overthrow of the apartheid regime and was basically counted out and told he had better go before something -- some real bodily harm. the international christian embassy for jerusalem, and you had a conversation with him. >> several, actually. >> apartheid. what was the experience and how would you compare that with what he experienced? >> he was really very hotheaded about the subject as he lived with it and he was persona non grata with the government. in fact, they had sent a journalist to this church. >> when he was in south africa and the guy warned him to get
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out of the country. he said you are going to end up getting locked up. and so he fled and he fled to israel. the next thing you know we have this book. i said how do you compare the two? he said they for example, when he took someone from his church, this black man that was part of the church board, they could need even eat in the same restaurant. he couldn't go in with the church pastors to have lunch. they had to get lunch and said it and be it in the car so they could be together. very much like the deep south before the civil rights movement. you know there is nothing like that in israel. in fact, the judge, one of the judges that made the decision as to the former president of israel being jailed for sexual assault was an arab.
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there are ebbs in the knesset. there are arabs everywhere that are both pro-israel and not pro-israel but they are actively involved in the community. so it's an absurd -- the apartheid wall i guess is the prop for this because they put a wall up to protect the israelis from suicide bombers, which has been about 90% successful. but that was the prop and everybody has their picture taken in israel so that is kind of where the jump off point was. he never actually said it was apartheid but they used the hook is a title and this sort of ongoing accusation. but malcolm headings becomes rather defaced when the subject arises and that is how he feels.
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>> you tell some other things in the book, you know, reject the notion that essentially the jewish and arab or muslim for that matter are simply separate which should be the reality if this was an apartheid state. there were a couple of examples you gave from i suppose the sublime to the semi-ridiculous and i'll begin with ridiculous. there is a relatively new mall outside of the old city called the manila mall and i gather at one point you were trying to buy some cosmetics there in a shop and you couldn't get any attention because the jewish saleswoman and the arab customer were deeply engaged in a very
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long discussion. >> eyeshadow. whether it should be frosted or whether it should match the headscarf or not match the headscarf and seriously, i went from there to lunch and i thought i was meeting a jewish friend and we were going to sit at a table overlooking the city. an arab family came in ahead of us and next to us was an orthodox jewish family, sitting and we were trying to get a table, which we finally did that the entire app is fair is like nobody's paying attention. everybody is saying what they are everybody of course, secular jews don't stress noticeably different than anybody else. >> american tourists do. describe the american tourist. >> well, little fanny packs. most of them are over 60 and have backpacks and that is how they describe them. it's so mixed and nobody is
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paying any attention. it's laughable. it is ridiculous. >> and somewhat more serious and perhaps sublime, it's one of the things, this woman you met who works at the hospital which is in the religious corridor of jerusalem and i gather, maybe you want to tell what her job is and what the hospital does. >> she is the personal director at the hospital. she is not a religious jew but it's a very kosher hospital and he keeps very crucial so anybody can go there but what was surprising to me was 40% of their patients are from the west bank and our arab and they make
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a new schedule for ramadan every year so everyone gets to be at the right time, has the right to. she went and learned arabic because some of the people who are coming in for treatment had been told terrible things about israel and that they would be abused or put in danger. she learned arabic simply to be able to comfort the patience. they have family dialysis unit in the country for a while, and they drove a shuttle, pick the people up for free and brought them in and they were treated. the whole atmosphere was to make everyone not only comfortable but able to observe their religious obligations. so, the ultra-orthodox remaking sure that there was ramadan food at a certain time and everyone everyone -- but it was the effort they went to an effort she went to end her concern that
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she could sit and talk to people and comfort them and encourage them if they were be safe. that is really typical and in fact there are many stories of people who come in for treatment and have had their minds changed by the way they were treated in an israeli hospital. not only medically treated the treated as human beings with the same courtesy that any jew or anyone else would have. those stories abound. and a ugandan passenger had quite a horror story. he's a convert from islam to christianity. he became quite an outspoken evangelist for christianity after his conversion and had a church with 1000 people in cup incorporated apollo. on christmas eve a year ago, he had acid thrown in his face by someone who said all the out or when he threw it and he turned
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his head so one side, his right side, he lost his eye and he was wearing a full mask right now because of the skin grafts. but he came to israel. his way was paid. his medical bills were paid by israelis and he went to that hospital. the treatment there that he has received as a christian and as a black african has been phenomenal. he is never going to be okay, but he is so impressed with israel and so impressed with the way he has been treated and the way people he knows it been treated that he can't stop talking about it. i interviewed him with netanyahu who is a friend of mine. we went and saw him and talk to him about the experience. he represents in my mind the antidote to some of these.
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it flies in the face of just about all of them. that would be my best answer. >> we have been talking a little bit about what israel isn't and moving into what israel is. so, actually there is one thing i want to ask you about and it does go back to the war issue. how one experiences war in israel. part of that as you say, there is a big difference or has until recently been a big difference
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between certain parts of the country and their immediate experience of war. anyway the whole country experiences war because as a citizen army and when there's a war they are called up from every part of israel, as they were in the most recent war, the troops, 75,000 troops to the border and i'm sure almost every place in israel was represented. ..
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it. >> it implies it would be better if tomas were a better marksmen we're the israelis took less to protect themselves but it ignores day in and day out in different communities and
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the experience. their war is every day. >> guest: that is right. rarely i have never seen as the story of these people living with the constant sirens every time a rocket is close by. they had 15 seconds to get to the bomb shelter. some of the founders were 65 +, some of them were in their seventies. they had not slept through the night this was in 2009, part what triggered it was they hear that israel
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has made a strategic strike on a particular target and that was responded to with the rockets. when there were over 12,000 rockets over the last 10 years. some of them are small native and the gramm was house but now they are large they have to get up and run every time there is a siren they do it because people are killed depending on where it strikes they were taking antidepressants all the children were bedwetters the people were being bused
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to a lot for the three day weekend to sleep in a hotel with no disturbance. one woman said my children will not visit. aren't you afraid? i did not even hear sirens just explosions. less than 1 mile from caused the. the mothers getting their babies into the shelters. one mother said which children do i grabbed a first? every time she makes this decision. that is ongoing. it is quite yet right now with the truce with tomas but everybody knows it will start. after lebanon there the
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north was bombarded and we went to see the places they had struck those people had gone to jerusalem or somewhere else. their living in the shelter for a month. people say it is a slice of new jersey. everybody has a relative. not like america. this is everybody's problem. the phone starts ringing and recently we have sirens in jerusalem for the first time in 30 years. you find yourself to say should i take a shower or
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not? [laughter] do i sleep in my normal pajamas? i'll have to be with my neighbors in the us -- bomb shelter. but that is the consciousness. the status of war is the ongoing threat and a state of consciousness but also a way no matter what. they don't just sit around and worry but they have dinner. what it sums up.
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>> with the misconceptions of what life is like with a city in the north of israel standing in the rubble of city hall. >> guest: those ever in shelters were upset. they wanted it finished. they said we will live there for three months if that is the end of it. but they burn the trees and we plan to 100 trees. we prepare. it will be the gateway and the lebanese will, and we
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will have dinner together. we will be then gave way to the north. he was about planting and rebuilding and trees are a big deal in israel. the only country that had more trees at the turn at the 20th century than at the beginning. but that is what he talks about. it is a defiance but the spirit of building and a life. the people were sorry the war ended when it did and they knew it was badly. but they wanted to live their life again. >> host: is something of a joke in israel that building
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cranes are called the national bird. >> guest: it is true. and with sure bought you cannot hear heavy equipment because it is noisy with so much destruction. >> host: also another experience is a music. also, it surprise you? >> guest: i did not know the jewish families sang together at the shebat table and at the holidays.
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there are christian but songs that are sung at a church service or camping but here in israel, every shebat and i noticed the very first one i heard singing all along the block. the families come together and they blessed the dinner -- dinner and basing. very free spirit. you can hear it from house to house on friday night through saturday evening. people were practicing instruments playing a violin or a flute some are better than others. [laughter] sometimes you hear fine piano but with the subject
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of settlements friends invited me to a concert. they are not good at explaining anything. i thought we were going to the jerusalem theater. it was getting darker. it is where the profit jeremiah was born and is a settlement. we get to the last house of the barricaded road. we're definitely in the settlement we see the lights of jordan and we went inside and the man had lived there invited 20 people first chair violinist at the symphony now retired.
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because the very fine piano player came from moscow and they decided to have a concert. we're listening to the finest violin music this is what they did on a thursday night than a local wine maker brought his best to share. that was the music that they live with it was part of the soul that i will never forget it because i feel that i should have paid $100 to hear him play but it was a friendly gesture. it was one of the most moving moments that i had in the country. there is music everywhere.
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even the kids in the street, the army guys will burst into a middle of a song. my kids would never do that. it is much more part of the community. >> host: some people think it is appreciated by the goats? >> guest: apparently. there was an outpost settlement that had goat dairy products and chickens. the barn was beautiful even with skylights. there is a piano at the top and people play classical
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music while they are being milked. [laughter] i guess it makes buttermilk's. >> host: now a subject that is really to subjects. the situation of jews and christians in muslim countries. one is the story of the jews who lived in the arab and muslim countries reside in israel mostly or in some cases france. the other side of the story is the christian communities
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that did until very recently. to talk about the iraqi christian community. it was about 1 million during 2003 and now it is that 40,000. they have suffered grievous amounts. last christmas with the catholic church in baghdad? "this is it" is a grim subjects but say something about how you approach this in the book. you have done a lot of research of the situation of christians and other countries.
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but this dovetails that you may not have happened upon. >> guest: right. first of all, i came across a subject when i was at a conference when i was at hudson. i had a blank spot on my calendar and wandered into a workshop. i heard stories of people who have fled the arab countries. it turned into an emotional scene. after the speakers of the panel q&a were people we've been talking about leaving their parents parents, homes, grandparents behind. i had no idea what they were talking about.
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before israel i read history books and there really was not more than a passing mention there were at least 50,000 jews expelled between 1948 and 1970. when i talk to the israelis about it, they said yes. why isn't this common knowledge? nobody knows why. because israel said in a welcome to the arab speaking jews that every but was not comfortable. so people were living in tent. it was a difficult time. after interviewing these countries.
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morocco was a mild case and then iraq and egypt. now, there are almost no jews. egypt it is very low. 10 or 20. now the christian communities are insulted. much more informally stir up cited groups or terrorist groups but in this case a catholic church was bombed on christmas eve. 57 people died. i have photographs from a military friend that i don't think anybody ever published. there were dismemberment. eve then it intentional
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mutilation. i saw of the headings. this was an angry assaults not just neat and tidy. repeated and repeated i think one real tragedy is these people went to syria now they get it from both sides. the state and whenever the rebellion is. we have that in the wake of being expelled. i met an old man who had to flee in 1970 with his wife and said christians did not see the writing on the wall and they should have.
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the same with egypt. now there is a terrible risk. a huge and christian population. the rich are leaving that they can afford a lawyer or the airplane ticket but what is left are the poor. where will they go on foot? sudan, libya and israel by a are putting up another wall. so they cannot go there either. it is an massive refugee problem waiting to happen in. a pattern repeating itself over and over. i know how to sound the alarm with what is coming with refugees. it will be a nightmare. we just finished with the
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manuscript. it is not a survey but an analysis of the authorities that persecute christians. there are so many we had to add an additional section in the book to cover it. it is a huge problem. the countries that have been expelled by the most obvious because the same thing happens to the christians now. and to say the christians and issues may have differences but we look exactly the same.
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>> host: it seems to me with the situation of the egyptian christians that was a huge part of the population. our colleague would have been here but was bumped from a flight from cairo. there is no way this situation is enviable but in the end they have a place to go. there is no discreet part that is just christians accept massive dislocation. >> is there is no israel for christians.
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>> host: this should be appreciated by people. you complain that christians don't pay enough attention. >> guest: it is hard to wake people up. some particular groups don't necessarily identify with the ancient church. those that have the old liturgy are the evangelicals don't think of them of the same way but it is so removed. it is hard. when a church is blown up every sunday in nigeria it
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reaches a point* nobody listens any more it goes on and on. we have tried to put a real stories and real people but it is hard to get people interested. to do something to belief it could be done. but it is difficult and not to turn away. >> host: this story if the reference is correct, the man that you talked about that is the man who was a priest? >> guest: that was a different man and died a couple years ago. >> host: this was one sad
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story. what he moseley had to talk about how arab christians were driven out of the west bank. but his own life story was charming and interesting. he came from northern iraq. and it turns out the israeli police, some of them were the kurdish jews. >> guest: he was grieved. they could not visit back
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and forth with all of the changes. israelis cannot go to bethlehem. he was really sad and they missed his friends. >> but it is a rare to speak aramaic as your native tongue. i don't know if there's any left. >> guest: just in the church with the liturgy. this man told a story before he went to israel, he was a priest that was devoted to st. mary. this one year for covered when then came to the fees to and after they had
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finished they went to him. they asked if they could go in the church. he said sure. they pulled off the avails and fell on their faces and wept and prayed and he tried to understand. then he said may i ask you what happened? one of them said they were armenian children kidnapped and married to muslim men but they had never forgotten their faith. they came whenever they could to pray. there are still a priest in churches preaching to the muslim communities that were
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once christian. and it is so ongoing. we don't make public but it is the interesting movement beneath the surface. he is gone now. he is very proud of the jews. said did you have problems with the jews? he said we are the sons of abraham. we killed them. they also are the sons of abraham. that is why there is some trouble with the church. [laughter] >> host: let me come to a subject, why did you go to
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israel? why did you stay? what do israelis know about christians? how do they enders stand christianity? when you went to see the pastor in the hospital what does she make of view? >> guest: i will start by saying why i went to israel. i have always wanted to see israel. my father was a